The motivations behind writing this post are twofold. First of all, I have been blogging about the World Cup for the past couple posts and will continue to in the next couple posts so it is nice to take a break from Soccer (Good luck Team USA!). Second, with the Kobe winning his 5th title, a popular sports debate has been whether he is now in contention for the title of greatest player of all time. Here is my list of the 10 greatest NBA players of all time (feel free to comment with your own list):
10) Kobe Bryant - Kobe is not the greatest player of all time and there is really nothing he can do to change that fact. Yes he has 5 titles, which is more than most other guys on this list. But all 5 of those titles came with an all time great coach (Phil Jackson) and a dominant big man (Shaq and Gasol). In the years where Kobe did not have another elite talent to share the load with, his team wasn't nearly as good. Besides, he played terribly in the biggest game of his life, Game 7 of this year's finals.
9b) Tim Duncan - When I first wrote this list, Timmy wasn't on it. Which makes perfect sense because he is the most forgotten great player of this generation. Tim Duncan has won 4 NBA titles with a good, but certainly not great, supporting cast. That is something very few guys on this list can claim. He is easily the most consistent player in the post-Jordan NBA. And he is a much more likable figure than Kobe so he finishes ahead of him.
9a) Shaq - I didn't feel that it was right to separate Shaq and Duncan because they have the same number of NBA titles (4) and it is impossible to pick just one of them as the great big man of this era. Like Kobe, Shaq has always had a great teammate (Kobe and Dwayne Wade). However, on their first title team, Shaq was easily the superstar and Kobe was merrily the sidekick. And more importantly, when he was on, there wasn't a player in the NBA who could stop the Big Diesel. He is possibly the most dominant big man since Wilt. Plus he has a plethora of really awesome nicknames!
8) Julius Erving - Dr. J is on this list as much for his contributions to basketball as he is for his accomplishments. Dr. J did win 3 ABA and NBA titles. More importantly, his popularity was key to the NBA/ABA merger. And Dr. J turned the slam dunk from a bring shot that only big men did to a spectacular shot that anyone can do. And, he invented the cross-over dribble. Think about how many slam dunks and cross-over dribbles happen during a basketball game. That is why Dr. J is number 8.
7) Larry Bird - While not overly athletic, Larry Bird was immensely talented and one of the most fundamentally strong players in NBA history. He did not have a weakness in his game. Larry Legend won 3 NBA titles and together with Magic Johnson helped to bring the NBA back into the public limelight.
6) Jerry West - I don't know too much about Jerry West's career, but I do know the discussion for greatest Laker of all-time comes down Jerry, Kobe, or Magic. Plus, Jerry is usually mentioned in lists like this one. He only won 1 NBA title, but he did lose to Bill Russell's Celtics in the title game 8 times! Plus he averaged 27.0 points for his career despite playing before the addition of the 3-point line.
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Kareem has more titles than any of the guys he finishes ahead of with 6. Plus his skyhook is the most unstoppable offensive weapon in the history of the NBA. And he is the NBA's all-time scoring leader. Kareem would be higher on this list if not for the amazing quality of guys in front of him.
4) Oscar Robertson - I don't know to much about Oscar Robertson's career, but I do know that he is mentioned on every list like this one. He also averaged a triple double for the first five years of his career, which is simply amazing! (For comparison, Lebron's best single season has left him 1.5 assists and 2 rebounds per game short of approaching this feat.)
3) Bill Russell - Bill Russell could make it on this list simply by the fact that he won 11 NBA titles! But he is also the greatest defensive player and co-greatest rebounder in NBA history. He averaged 20 rebounds for a season 10 times! (For comparison, Dwight Howards best single season average is 14.2 rebounds.) However, Russell was never the focal point of his team's offense, so he can't be higher on this list, despite all those NBA titles.
2b) Michael Jordan - Everyone knows that His Airness is the greatest player of all-time. And if you read on you will see my logic for placing him not at the top. But as to why Michael is where he is, Jordan won 6 NBA titles in his career (and would have won more had he not decided to try baseball). He is the greatest shooting guard in the history of the game and probably the most clutch player as well. Plus, he is the most popular player of all-time and every great player in today's game is thought of in terms of how they compare to Michael.
2a) Magic Johnson - Make no mistake about it, Magic Johnson deserves to be right here with Michael Jordan (and actually slightly ahead of him). Michael Jordan was a dominant shooting guard; Magic Johnson was a dominant player at every position on the floor. He is the only player in NBA history who can make that claim. Despite being a point guard, Magic Johnson started Game 6 of the NBA Finals his rookie year at center and had the incredible stat line 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assist, and 3 steals. It is difficult to compare Magic's all-time numbers because his career was cut short at the age of 32 due to his testing positive for HIV. Still, in his shortened career, Magic won 5 NBA titles. I have no doubt that had he continued playing Magic's Lakers would have challenged Michael's Bulls for the NBA title every year and probably won a few.
1) Wilt Chamberlain - I was all set to make Michael and Magic co-greatest players of all-time until I did some further research into Wilt. Rather than make arguments about why Wilt is the greatest player of all-time, I am going to let his numbers speak for themselves. Wilt averaged 30.1 points and 22.9 rebounds for his career! He once scored 100 points in a game! He once grabbed 55 rebounds in a game! He once averaged 50 points for a season! He average 40 points in a different season! Those overwhelming number (and many more) are the reason Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest NBA player of all-time, despite winning only 2 NBA titles.
Incomplete) Lebron James - I have Lebron here as an anticpatory pick. Although his accomplishments don't merit his inclusion yet, Lebron will most certainly be on this list one day. He is the closest thing the NBA has seen to Magic since Magic. And he will undoubtatly win his share of NBA titles like everyone else on this list. Michael Jordan didn't win his first title until his 7th season in the league and he was known in the late 80's as a great player who couldn't win a the big one. The reason I have chosen to put Lebron's Incomplete ahead of everyone else on this list is that I believe if he plays as well as he can, the King will retire as the greatest NBA player of all-time.
I am posting this for Jordan because he couldn't get the comments to work:
ReplyDeletefor some reason my German internet wouldn't let me comment on your blog, so I'm emailing my comment to you instead. Peace!
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This is a bunch of horse-dookie Colin. First of all, forums as far apart as ESPN, the LA Times, and the NY Times are leaning in the direction that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time, and here you go throwing three Lakers ahead of him in this list of yours.
Second, inserting Jerry West in the list BECAUSE YOU'VE SEEN HIM HERE IN OTHER LISTS is idiotic! Seriously, not to harp on the Kobe issue, but PLEASE put the two next to each other and tell me which is the better player. Holy Crap!
Third, can you even name another player that Wilt Chamberlain played against? Dude, the wasn't any competition... the Stilt was like, the only 7-footer on the planet back then. Throw him into an 82-game season TODAY and let's see him average 50 pts a night. Come on! And let's not even mention all the rules that didn't even exist back then.
Fourth, MJ's not at the top. This is why I knew it was a mistake to ever start following your blog. I'm surprised you didn't put Derek Jeter as number 1.
Jordan, Jordan, Jordan,
ReplyDeleteI am going to post your comment and my response on the blog so other people can see it, but I will also email you my reply. And here it is:
I don't care what Big Media says about Kobe (although I don't think the opinion that he is the greatest Laker ever is as universal as you say). If you were only to look at Shaq's accomplishments on the Lakers, he would not finish ahead of Kobe. But if you take into account the dominance he showed in Orlando (despite the lack of a title) and the title he won with the Heat, he does finish ahead. Plus in his prime, he dominated the sport in a way that Kobe has not and can not.
As for Jerry West, I didn't just include him because I saw him elsewhere, that is just where I got the idea. If you look at his numbers, he clearly belongs on this list. I don't agree that Kobe emerges superior if you put the two next to each other. Jerry West averaged more points than Kobe despite playing before the shot clock or the 3-point line. Those two additions to the game greatly increased scoring, particularly for guards. Plus, Jerry West's game is timeless. He would prosper in today's game because he was primarily a jump shooter. Plus, he was an incredibly technically sound player and a great defender. Kobe on the other hand, would not have been the same player back in the 60's for one main reason (despite the fact that he is clearly a superior athlete). The drive and get fouled shit that every star (not just Kobe) does nowadays wouldn't have flown back in the 60's. Bill Russell would have just knocked his ass to the ground and it would have been Celtics' ball. Plus, Jerry West is one of the most clutch players in NBA history, up there with MJ. I know you think he is, but Kobe Bryant is not clutch. Both statistical and analytical evidence shows this. For the statistical evidence, check out this site: http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm. And analytically, just watch Game 7 of the Finals. In the biggest game of his life, Kobe shot 25% from the field.
As for Wilt, I can name way more than one player he played against. He played against the undisputed greatest defender in NBA history, Bill Russell. He played against fellow Top 10 player Kareem. He played against Oscar Robertson. He played aginst Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. He played against Bob Cousy. He played against Walt Frazier and Willis Reed (two Knicks' greats). He played against Jerry Lucas (a fellow 7-footer). Whats notable about every player I just named is that they all appear on the NBA's Top 50 Greatest Players of All-Time (and there are more that I had never heard of that he also played against). As for the schedule, the league played an 80 game schedule back then, just two less than today. And it was a lot more compact than it is now. I would argue that the grind was much worse in those days than today's era of pampered athletes. And I would argue that the rule changes have done more to help today's players statistics as they compare historically than to hurt them. The shot clock has driven scoring up. Nowadays, all a star has to do is drive in the lane and he gets two free throws. Wilt regularly faced more physical defenses than the rules would allow for today. And he was almost always double or triple teamed. Overall, Wilt impacted the game in a way that neither Magic or Michael did (but the gap between those 3 is very close).
I agree that Michael is an all-time talent. But despite being the best shooting guard the game has ever seen, his production quite doesn't match-up to Magic's versatility or Wilt's dominance.
Sorry this is such a long response, but this is a really fun topic to write about. Hope you enjoyed reading all of it and are having a great time in Germany!
Colin
Oh yeah, and Derek Jeter would never be number 1 on an NBA list. Now the top 10 baseball players of all time, that is a different story (I'm kidding, Babe Ruth is obviously #1).